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| meta:infobox:432_warning [2017/02/05 19:34] – [An analysis of the issue done by forum user slh] unnecessary \\ removed tmomas | supported_devices:432_warning [2021/11/29 01:38] – [Warning about 4/32 devices] richb-hanover | ||
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| - | ====== 4/32 warning | + | ====== |
| ~~NOTOC~~ | ~~NOTOC~~ | ||
| - | Every operating system requires | + | <WRAP round info 100%> |
| - | - Sufficient | + | **TL; |
| + | </ | ||
| + | |||
| + | Default builds of OpenWrt 21.02 can only run on 8/64 devices. We **recommend 16/128 devices.** Every operating system requires: | ||
| - Sufficient RAM for stable operation | - Sufficient RAM for stable operation | ||
| + | - Sufficient Flash to accommodate the firmware image | ||
| - | **Devices with insufficient/ | + | ===== Low RAM can lead to instability ===== |
| - | ===== Usability ===== | + | * 32 MB can barely work for minimal router/AP functions, but may repeatedly " |
| + | * 64 MB may still have issues with stability, depending on your hardware and use cases | ||
| + | * 128 MB or more is recommended (in 2021) if software past basic router/AP functionality is to be used | ||
| - | **Insufficient RAM for stable operation** | + | ===== Low Flash can't load new firmware or new packages ===== |
| - | * 32MB minimum; can work quite well, but can also be borderline, depending on your usecase. | + | * 4MB is absolute |
| - | * 64MB are more comfortable to work with, and in general | + | * 4MB devices |
| + | * 8MB (or more) of Flash lets install at least a few additional software packages, | ||
| + | * 16MB Flash (minimum) is recommended for the foreseeable future (in 2021) | ||
| - | ===== Extensibility ===== | + | Most probably, you will not be able to install the following popular packages (and others) on a device with only 4MB flash: |
| - | **Barely enough Flash to accommodate LEDE firmware image** | + | |
| + | | ||
| + | | ||
| + | | ||
| - | * 4MB min (won't be able to install luci) / 8MB better (will fit luci and some other applications) | + | As the current stable 21.02 release uses kernel 5.4 that is roughly 0.5 MB larger |
| - | * 4MB can work, but are no fun to work with. >4MB will make you happier | + | |
| - | * 4MB devices can't fit anything noteworthy unless you use [[docs: | + | |
| - | * Especially in regards | + | |
| + | ===== Supportability issues ===== | ||
| - | Devices | + | It is getting harder or even impossible over time to support devices |
| - | Most probably, you will not be able to install | + | The 32 MB RAM is harder limitation than the flash size. The current Linux 5.4 barely works with a 32 MB RAM system and spikes in memory consumption can easily crash the router |
| - | | + | **OpenWrt |
| - | | + | |
| - | * 3G/4G dongle | + | |
| - | | + | |
| - | ===== Supportability | + | ===== Advice |
| - | It is getting harder or even impossible over time to support devices with low Flash + RAM. | + | If you are not an expert user of OpenWrt (that is, if you do not build your own images), you should consider |
| - | LEDE support for those devices might end somewhere in the future. | + | |
| + | **16/64 as an // | ||
| - | ===== Advice ===== | + | If a device has less than 16 MB of Flash and/or less than 64 MB of RAM, it may be unstable in basic operation under current versions of OpenWrt (21.02, 19.07). Further expect that support for the device may be dropped at any time and that security patches/ |
| - | * **new users** knowing what they want (or not), not knowing what they need, not knowing what to do -> get 8/64 | + | Previous versions of OpenWrt |
| - | * **experienced users** knowing what they want, need, and do -> try if 4/32 suits your needs; if not, get 8/64 | + | |
| + | |||
| + | ===== Analysis of firmware size growth ===== | ||
| + | |||
| + | As example, the size of the sysupgrade release image for WNDR3700v1, an ar71xx/ | ||
| + | |||
| + | < | ||
| + | master: | ||
| + | 21.02.0: | ||
| + | 19.07.8: | ||
| + | 18.06.8: | ||
| + | 17.01.7: | ||
| + | 15.05.1: | ||
| + | 14.07: | ||
| + | 12.09: | ||
| + | </code> | ||
| - | ===== An analysis of the issue done by forum user slh ===== | + | Main reason is growth in size of the Linux kernel itself, but all included core packages (wifi, LuCI, etc.) also tend to grow as their features get expanded. |
| - | As written in [[https:// | + | |
| + | ==== Longer | ||
| + | |||
| + | As written in [[https:// | ||
| First of all, I'm not pretending to speak for the LEDE team, however looking at the plain numbers presents a quite obvious situation. | First of all, I'm not pretending to speak for the LEDE team, however looking at the plain numbers presents a quite obvious situation. | ||
| - | Taking " | + | Taking " |
| < | < | ||
| Line 84: | Line 108: | ||
| [4] I would expect that there already are a couple of 4 MB flash devices in the target list for which no release firmware can be built for 17.01, because of less ideal flash partitioning schemes chosen by the vendor (dropping free space below 3 erase blocks). Those are probably a minority, but given the close numbers, I'd be very suprised if there wouldn' | [4] I would expect that there already are a couple of 4 MB flash devices in the target list for which no release firmware can be built for 17.01, because of less ideal flash partitioning schemes chosen by the vendor (dropping free space below 3 erase blocks). Those are probably a minority, but given the close numbers, I'd be very suprised if there wouldn' | ||
| + | [[https:// | ||
| ===== The opinion of a Core LEDE developer ===== | ===== The opinion of a Core LEDE developer ===== | ||
| - | As originally written in [[https:// | + | As originally written in [[https:// |
| Just providing my rather pragmatic opinion on the topic here:\\ | Just providing my rather pragmatic opinion on the topic here:\\ | ||
| Line 102: | Line 127: | ||
| * | * | ||
| * | * | ||
| - | |||
| - | |||
| - | ===== Infoboxes ===== | ||
| - | These infoboxes can be included in other pages via the following section-includes: | ||
| - | < | ||
| - | {{section> | ||
| - | {{section> | ||
| - | </ | ||
| - | |||
| - | ==== Infobox for dataentries ==== | ||
| - | |||
| - | <WRAP center round box info 650px> | ||
| - | Not recommended for future use with LEDE due to low flash/ | ||
| - | Limitations in extensibility and stability of operation are to be expected. | ||
| - | </ | ||
| - | |||
| - | |||
| - | ==== Infobox for ToHs ==== | ||
| - | |||
| - | <WRAP round info 100%> | ||
| - | **Devices with ≤4MB flash and/or ≤32MB ram suffer from limitations in extensibility and stability of operation.** Consider this when chosing a device to buy, or when deciding to flash LEDE on your device because it is listed as supported. See [[432_warning]] for details. | ||
| - | </ | ||