[00:00] <groz> which one do you have kaloz ?
[00:01] <Kaloz> groz: http://www.topcom.net/product.php?groep=2&cat=18&catsub=81
[00:01] <Kaloz> the one on the top
[00:02] <groz> and that's the rdc stuff inside ?
[00:02] <Kaloz> yeah
[00:02] <groz> you say the linksys has tftpd
[00:02] <groz> so it's possible to tftp it during boot ?
[00:02] <Kaloz> yep
[00:02] <Kaloz> look at the redboot binaries in the gpl tarball
[00:03] <Kaloz> the linksys one has tftpd
[00:03] <groz> i haven't looked closely yet, just confirmed it's an x86 device, then, put it on my list of 'get one when i see it at the store'
[00:03] <groz> but the store that has them in inventory is an hour drive
[00:03] <groz> i haven't gone there yet
[00:04] <groz> so, you say there is no flash mapping at all on it
[00:06] <Kaloz> right
[00:16] <[mbm]> btw we seem to be missing an target/linux/image/ar531x directory
[00:17] <[mbm]> er .. -linux
[00:17] <[mbm]> target/image/ar531x
[00:40] <groz> ok, now i have a dumb question
[00:40] <groz> i checked out the packages tree
[00:40] <groz> but, i dont see an obvious way to join it into the setup
[00:41] <[mbm]> :)
[00:41] <groz> to get the packages building
[00:41] <[mbm]> just dump one of them in buildroot-ng/openwrt/packages and run make menuconfig to select it
[00:41] <groz> ok, so you dump the whole directory in there
[00:41] <groz> you cant just join the new tree in
[00:41] <groz> and magically find them all
[00:42] <[mbm]> as soon as you add a new package directory it magically shows up in menuconfig
[00:42] <groz> i was wondering if there is a bit of 'magic' to keep them separated is all
[00:42] <groz> yah, i've seen how that works
[00:42] <groz> i was just wondfering since they are in different trees in svn
[00:42] <groz> if they should be kept that way
[00:42] <groz> for putting them back in
[00:43] <[mbm]> the way it's setup is that only required packages are actually under buildroot-ng
[00:43] <groz> yes, and i'm gonna start on some 'not required' ones now
[00:44] <[mbm]> meaning that you check them into packages/ and not buildroot-ng/
[00:44] <groz> and i'm thinking there is something i'm missing about how to keep it separated
[00:44] <groz> ok, i can do that
[00:44] <groz> but to build em, just mix em all in
[00:44] <[mbm]> yep
[00:44] <groz> ok, thought maybe i was missing another magic step here
[00:44] <groz> guess after seeing so much magic, it ran outa magic
[00:46] <[mbm]> really isn't much point to separating them on the build machine
[00:46] <groz> yah, just dont want to end up checking them back into the wrong tree
[00:46] <groz> but i have a solution
[00:46] <[mbm]> symlinks?
[00:46] <groz> yep
[00:47] <groz> so i can keep the trees separate while i bring a few across
[00:47] <groz> but build em mixed
[00:47] <groz> gonna get wpa_supp going now
[00:47] <[mbm]> hmm something screwy about the kernel builds .. occasinally it'll just crash complaining it can't find the *.ko files to make the kmod-crypto package
[00:47] <groz> this of course assumes i dont get called to go flying
[00:48] <groz> i'm first up on call now
[00:49] <groz> i'm still debating if getting back into flying was a 'smart move'
[00:50] <[mbm]> you'd rather a desk job?
[00:50] <groz> flying is a desk job
[00:50] <groz> just the desk is moving
[00:50] <[mbm]> shows my ignorance, I always thought they flew planes
[00:51] <groz> i do fly planes
[00:51] <groz> but, sitting in the front of the plane for a few hours
[00:51] <groz> not much different than sitting at a desk
[00:52] <groz> well, actually, it is a bit, things like there is a 'procedure' to follow if you want to get up and take a piss
[00:52] <groz> partner has to put on o2 mask before you get out of seat
[00:52] <groz> etc
[00:52] <[mbm]> hit autopilot, take a piss ..
[00:53] <groz> if one pilot is gonna leave the cockpit, other pilot must be wearing oxygen mask
[00:53] <groz> autopilot always does the real flying
[00:53] <groz> new rules, not allowed to hand fly airplanes anymore
[00:53] <groz> above 28,000 feet
[00:53] <h3sp4wn> Even military planes are not manually flown
[00:53] <h3sp4wn> ?
[00:53] <groz> google RVSM
[00:54] <groz> reduced vertical separation minimums
[00:54] <groz> military same deal, unless they have a clearance for a 'block of altitudes'
[00:54] <groz> or are operating in a restricted area
[00:54] <[mbm]> well, wearing an o2 mask while someone is stinking up the place is just common sense ..
[00:54] <[mbm]> ;)
[00:54] <groz> but when tehy are doing the boring point a to point b stuff, same rules apply
[00:55] <groz> lol mbm, actually, the pisser is in another room
[00:55] <h3sp4wn> But in iraq say ? it is not manually flown ? dropping bombs ?
[00:55] <groz> no worries about that
[00:55] <groz> iraq doesnt have the same airspace rules north america and europe have
[00:55] <h3sp4wn> So they fly normally there ?
[00:55] <groz> but no, dropping bombs is not gonna be hand flown at all
[00:55] <groz> not precise enough
[00:55] <groz> it'll all be done by computer
[00:56] <h3sp4wn> But the actual flying ?
[00:56] <groz> yah, the actual flying
[00:56] <groz> heck, when i go out
[00:56] <groz> lots of times, we dont touch controls after we get onto the runway
[00:56] <groz> set auto, and off you go
[00:56] <[mbm]> so basically you're just there to reboot the computer if it goes bsod?
[00:56] <groz> it's more fuel efficient that way
[00:56] <groz> you are there to pacify passengers
[00:56] <groz> they feel better if they see warm bodies up front
[00:57] <groz> the funny part is, when weather gets really bad
[00:57] <groz> we are not permitted to hand fly, even landing
[00:57] <[mbm]> reminds me of the old joke about the blind pilots
[00:57] <groz> it's a job i do mostly for the travel perks
[00:58] <groz> but it really depends on the equipment too
[00:58] <groz> take the CRJ as an example, it's autopilot is not capable of auto-land
[00:58] <groz> so, those things are always hand flown from 1000 feet to the ground
[00:59] <groz> but take a modern 737 as an example, 737-800
[00:59] <groz> most operators have standard procedures that specifiy
[00:59] <groz> thou shalt let auto fly, it saves gas
[00:59] <db90h> very educational ;)
[01:00] <db90h> now we know why its ok for pilots to drink and get stoned
[01:00] <groz> i've got buddies flying for westjet
[01:00] <db90h> ;)
[01:00] <groz> brand new airplanes
[01:00] <groz> they complain, not really allowed to fly anymore
[01:00] <groz> got more buddies flying older equipment, turn down upgrades onto new stuff
[01:00] <db90h> hehe, yea that would be a boring job
[01:00] <groz> cuz they want to have something to do
[01:00] <[mbm]> db90h: now I know where the stewardist is when she isn't serving me those damned peanuts for $3
[01:01] <groz> they see no appeal in shepherding an autopilot aournd the country
[01:01] <groz> mbm, consider this
[01:01] <db90h> off partying with the pilots?
[01:01] <groz> next time you are on a commercial flight
[01:01] <groz> just before takeoff, listen carefully
[01:01] <groz> you will hear the chimes
[01:01] <groz> loudly going BIMBO
[01:01] <groz> then later, when the pilots want coffee up front
[01:01] <groz> push the bimbo button
[01:01] <groz> chimes go BIMBO
[01:01] <groz> and one comes running
[01:02] <db90h> lol
[01:02] <[mbm]> hot coffee
[01:02] <db90h> u mean that sound when they turn on no smoking sign and seatbelt sign?
[01:02] <db90h> it kinda does sound like 'bimbo' ;p
[01:02] <groz> yes
[01:02] <groz> the bimbo bell
[01:02] <db90h> never thought of that
[01:02] <db90h> that's hilarious
[01:04] <groz> I did an annual renewal flight test a couple weeks ago, on a small plane
[01:04] <groz> i actually got marked down
[01:04] <groz> for not using the autopilot as much as i could
[01:05] <[mbm]> what I always found funny is that there's never a problem with the aircraft, they just need to change a tire
[01:07] <groz> hmm, can i sell you a bridge too ?
[01:07] <[mbm]> yeah, I know
[01:11] <andersee> groz: bridges are free -- 'addbr br0'
[01:11] <andersee> :)
[01:11] Action: andersee goes back into lurk mode
[01:12] <groz> lol
[01:15] Action: [mbm] can't stand flying much anymore .. in the economy class there's not even enough room to open a laptop
[01:15] <groz> well, you know what, there's not any more room up front either
[01:15] <groz> except, i do get legroom in front of me
[01:15] <Kaloz> just free alcohol
[01:16] <Kaloz> :p
[01:16] <groz> down to the rudder pedals
[01:16] <[mbm]> in the unlikely event that the person infront of me hasn't fully reclined their seat into obscene positions I barely have enough room to sit the laptop on my lap
[01:16] <groz> it actually depends on the airline
[01:17] <[mbm]> usually just fully packed dc-9's
[01:19] <[mbm]> last flight I took was with northwest .. two 3 hours spans, no movies and only a single soda .. had to spend $5 if I wanted their snack assortment
[01:19] <[mbm]> would have watched a movie on my laptop if only I could get the screen into a viewable position
[01:20] <andersee> you need a smaller laptop
[01:20] <groz> you know what's really disgusting
[01:20] <groz> take westjet as an example
[01:20] <groz> if the pilots want something from the commisary
[01:20] <groz> they pay for it, just like the passengers
[01:20] <[mbm]> andersee: this is a standard size thinkpad .. it's not one of those massive things
[01:20] <h3sp4wn> You need to just act in a agressive / violent way (get people to be more reasonable
[01:21] <[mbm]> think my next laptop I'll get one where the screen folds into a tablet form
[01:21] <Kaloz> [mbm]: get a subnote
[01:21] <Kaloz> ;)
[01:21] <groz> hmmm, i've recently had 'special training' in dealing with aggressive/violent passengers
[01:21] <Kaloz> i could watch movies on my hp on the plane
[01:21] <[mbm]> groz: get them drugged?
[01:21] <groz> about the only good thing to come out of all this new security crap
[01:22] <groz> now, they tell us, basically
[01:22] <groz> if you kill em, nobody will mind
[01:22] <Kaloz> lol
[01:22] <Kaloz> i thought this mentality didn't get out of the usa
[01:22] <groz> oh, i fly inot the usa a lot
[01:22] <groz> so thier attitude sneaks in
[01:23] <[mbm]> Kaloz: this flight was pathetic, the seats were packed so close I had to bend my knees up just to get into the seat
[01:23] <groz> mbm, how tall are you ?
[01:23] <[mbm]> not very
[01:23] <[mbm]> probably 5'4" or so
[01:23] <groz> you want a disgusting trip
[01:23] <groz> i'm 6'1
[01:23] <groz> ride a CRJ from vegas to vancouver
[01:23] <Kaloz> eh
[01:24] <Kaloz> now i have to calc it to some normal number
[01:24] <Kaloz> :p
[01:24] <db90h> it seems like the software backing auto-pilot functionality would be exceedingly complex
[01:24] <groz> kaloz, is simple
[01:24] <db90h> to land a 747.. there's a lot of variables there
[01:24] <groz> 5'4 is 'slightly below averag' and 6'1 is slightly above average
[01:24] <groz> actyally db90
[01:24] <groz> its a lot simpler than you would imagine
[01:24] <Kaloz> groz: ~183cm for you, right?
[01:24] <groz> simple state machines
[01:25] <groz> that eliminate all unnecessary variables
[01:25] <db90h> they just respond to changes in the state of the aircraft?
[01:25] <groz> yup
[01:25] <groz> and it goes thru a very rigourous proving process
[01:25] <groz> so, the name of the game is always 'simplify'
[01:25] <db90h> i bet.. i'm sure they run it through a lot of simulations
[01:25] <[mbm]> Kaloz: google. 'convert __ feet __ inches to cm'
[01:26] <db90h> yea, simplicity is the key to a well designed and reliable system
[01:26] <groz> it dopes db, but, after the audits and 'proofs'
[01:26] <Kaloz> then i was about right
[01:26] <groz> and you sit back for every bit of info
[01:26] <db90h> ah, yea, proofs.. yuck
[01:26] <groz> and go thru a system safety assessment
[01:26] <groz> 'is this really necessary'
[01:26] <Kaloz> i'm 6' then
[01:27] <[mbm]> I have no idea what my actual height is .. I'm too lazy to measure
[01:28] <Kaloz> i i only know because we did bet on something with a girl not that long ago :)
[01:29] <[mbm]> o_O
[01:30] <Kaloz> yeah, life is weird :P
[01:38] <[mbm]> nbd: poke?
[01:39] <groz> nico you still here ?
[01:45] <h3sp4wn> Is the --wildcards issue for new versions of tar going to be fixed for rc6 ? (its only a minor problem but annoying)
[01:45] <[mbm]> yeah
[01:45] <h3sp4wn> Cool
[01:45] <[mbm]> it's one of the many todo items
[01:45] <h3sp4wn> No probs
[01:45] <[mbm]> sadly I question if rc6 will be out in the next 3 weeks
[01:46] <h3sp4wn> seriously ?
[01:46] <[mbm]> at this rate it won't be
[01:46] <h3sp4wn> ok
[01:47] <groz> ok, now do i change the 'todo' page on the dev wiki ?
[01:47] <groz> i must be blind, i dont see anything for that
[01:47] <[mbm]> the edit button on the bottom of the page?
[01:48] <groz> the edit button that's not there you mean ?
[01:48] <[mbm]> did you log in?
[01:48] <groz> yes
[01:48] <groz> logged in as groz
[01:48] <groz> it says at the top
[01:48] Action: [mbm] goes to check user permiessions
[01:48] Action: groz can understand not giviing groz write permission, i wouldn't either
[01:49] <Kaloz> fixed
[01:49] <Kaloz> :p
[01:49] <groz> oh look, new buttons
[01:49] <groz> including a 'delete' button
[01:49] <Kaloz> doh
[01:49] <Kaloz> :p
[01:50] <[mbm]> heh, was going to say, I just looked and groz had full admin rights
[01:51] <CIA-16> mbm * r4179 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/include/prereq.mk: update prereqs
[01:52] <CIA-16> mbm * r4180 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/include/kernel-build.mk: change $(STAMP_DIR) to $(LINUX_DIR) to avoid issues compiling multiple kernels
[01:57] <[mbm]> groz: https://dev.openwrt.org/wiki/people
[01:58] <groz> I can remain incognito for a while no ?
[01:58] <[mbm]> no
[01:59] <Kaloz> :P
[02:03] <groz> there, happy now ?
[02:03] <groz> ooops, need to change one more thing
[02:03] Action: groz NOT in usa
[02:04] <[mbm]> exactly how drunk are you? :)
[02:04] <groz> ?
[02:04] <[mbm]> just seems like you'd remember where you lived
[02:04] <groz> missed a piece cut and paste
[02:04] <Kaloz> malbon: you are missing from there as well :P
[02:04] <[mbm]> at least enough to narrow it down to a country
[02:08] <CIA-16> mbm * r4181 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/include/modules-2.6.mk: fix a few broken depenancies
[02:10] <[mbm]> there, now I can actually compile almost all platforms
[02:10] <groz> kewl
[02:11] <[mbm]> btw whoever maintains the bcm63xx stuff might want to revisit the kernel config .. imq and net sched are normally enabled
[05:38] <groz> so, is anybody still around, want more opions
[05:38] <groz> i want to create one more image target, if for no other reason, that I need it
[05:38] <groz> basically create a file system that can be written onto a usb key with dd
[05:38] <groz> and then boot an itx box as a router
[05:39] <groz> curious if anybody has any thoughts on the right/wrong way to do that
[05:39] <groz> i've done it in the past by loop mounting an ext file, so that i can lilo it
[05:39] <groz> then just copy on a kernel and initrd, then lilo it
[05:40] <groz> wondering if anybody has any other thoughts/preferences on making an fs bootable on a pc
[07:37] <malbon> groz: I used the skoaris port on disk on chip, grub (is better than lilo for some things)
[07:37] <malbon> groz: disk format I used was ext3
[08:49] <groz> i'm back
[08:49] <groz> thanks malbon, that's more or less that i was looking at too, gonna start here shortly
[08:49] <groz> i did ext2 last time i did this but thought ext3 better this time
[08:50] <groz> the real issue, is deciding which boot loader to use
[09:03] <florian__> hello, I think grub is good in any case, at least for x86
[09:06] Action: Kaloz would go with u-boot/syslinux
[09:06] <groz> really kaloz ?
[09:06] <groz> i've never looked at uboot
[09:06] <groz> and i dunno, syslinux, does'nt that require fat or cdfs ?
[09:07] <groz> all i want to be able to do, is load the kernel from the usb stick
[09:07] <groz> and then turn around and mount that stick once it's up
[09:08] <groz> but i'm interested in hearing pros and cons of various routes
[09:08] <Kaloz> both should work with ext2/ext3 just fine
[09:08] <groz> and, what do you guys think
[09:08] <groz> does this belong in the image set for mass consumptiom then
[09:08] <Kaloz> and both of them is way smaller then grub/lilo
[09:08] <groz> allows folks to build a bootable image, dd it onto a stick, and voila, instant router
[09:09] <groz> anything that can boot a stick
[09:09] <groz> I'll take a look at syslinux, last time i used it, it was only for fat systems
[09:09] <groz> but it's way easier to do a scripted install for
[09:09] <groz> than lilo
[09:09] <groz> with lilo, you have to loop mount the image, and, need to get root to set up the block loop device
[09:10] <Kaloz> Changes in 3.07:
[09:10] <Kaloz> Use a private copy of <linux/ext2_fs.h>.
[09:10] <Kaloz> :p
[09:10] <Kaloz> and it was long time ago
[09:10] <groz> well, i haven't looked at syslinux for proably 2 or 3 years
[09:10] <groz> or more
[09:10] <Kaloz> oh
[09:10] <Kaloz> groz: http://syslinux.zytor.com/extlinux.php
[09:11] <Kaloz> okay, it's derivative then
[09:11] <groz> ok, there it is
[09:11] <groz> extlinux
[09:11] <groz> lol
[09:13] <Kaloz> so i would try that or u-boot
[09:13] <groz> grrr, that seems to require a partitioned device
[09:13] <groz> it wants a master boot record with a partition table apparently
[09:13] <groz> that's the beauty of a memory stick, it doesnt have to be partitioned
[09:14] <groz> it's just a big floppy
[09:16] <groz> oh, maybe not, i'm mis reading
[09:16] <groz> it's saying it wont create it
[09:16] <groz> but, on a 'big floppy' we dont want it
[09:27] <CIA-16> florian * r4182 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/target/linux/brcm63xx-2.6/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Update brcm63xx to 2.6.17, restore the use of "generic patches" since there is no linux version mismatch
[09:43] <malbon> of course if you want to do embedded booting use redboot ;)
[09:44] <groz> lol malbon
[09:44] <groz> but i just am making a simple setup to copy onto a memory stick, and boot a via board with
[09:45] <groz> i've done it before where i copy a small (5 meg) ext2 system onto the stick with dd
[09:45] <groz> then when it boots, before it mounts that
[09:45] <groz> it runs resize2fs
[09:45] <groz> to size it up and fill the stick, whatever size stick it is
[09:47] <groz> malbon, i take it your are the redboot expert ?
[09:47] <groz> and no, not gonna bombard you with q's on it right now
[09:48] <malbon> well a lot of new platforms work with redboot now so it would be consistent with those other boards.
[09:48] <malbon> sorry I am a bit lagged. :(
[09:48] <groz> in the near future, i'm gonna start playing with the wrt54gr
[09:48] <malbon> expert is a bit strong.
[09:48] <groz> and i think that's redboot
[09:49] <groz> but before i get to that, got a bunch of things to clean up and get functional on wrt54g and x86 target systems
[09:49] <malbon> yeah, I was looking how to get one of those, they don't seem to be available in UK yet.
[09:49] <groz> well, theres a store in vancouver that is about an hour drive from here
[09:49] <groz> thier online system shows they have one in the store
[09:49] <groz> otherwise, they are still an 'order' item locally
[09:49] <groz> but I think it's a very intriguing box
[09:49] <malbon> rather than have the binary of resize2fs why not go JFS and in the scripts just do a mount / -o remount,resize
[09:50] <groz> cuz at the time, i was in a hurry, and i knew how to get it done with resize
[09:50] <malbon> yeah same here, only one vendor has them that I have tried
[09:50] <groz> and have never used jfs before
[09:50] <groz> so it was a 'start from scratch' concept to go that way
[09:50] <groz> and i was in a hurry to get it up and going
[09:51] <malbon> I use it in all my prod boxes, it is reliable.
[09:51] <groz> really
[09:51] <groz> what kind of hardware is your prod boxes, and how many of them you got out there ?
[09:51] <malbon> ( but working with IBM at $day_job has probably brainwashed me )
[09:52] <groz> lol
[09:52] <malbon> IBM x345/x346/x445/x446 IBM pSeries
[09:52] <groz> I've got one project useing the routerboard 220, got about 300 out there
[09:52] <groz> another project using wrt54g/gs/gl
[09:52] <groz> got about 1800 of those out there
[09:52] <malbon> aha, different sort of enviroment. ;)
[09:53] <malbon> groz: you spoken to murb recently btw?
[09:53] <groz> my rb220 stuff is 'very remote'
[09:53] <groz> they come live on the net about once every few days
[09:53] <groz> no, i haven't talked to him for a few weeks
[09:53] <groz> but he sure did get the job done when we needed it
[09:53] <groz> really saved my bacon on that one
[09:53] <malbon> ah, disconnected units.
[09:53] <malbon> yeah, he does seem to fall off the edge of the planet.
[09:53] <groz> they are mounted in airplanes, and only 'come to life' when they come to a ramp where we have access points
[09:54] <groz> well, i haven't been trying to get hold of him either
[09:54] <groz> so i dunno
[09:54] <groz> altho i believe he's been working with our european rep off and on since then
[09:54] <malbon> fair enough.
[09:54] <groz> I've been buried on another project since then, and, off flying a lot
[09:55] <groz> but i'm into a fairly long stretch of 'no significant flying scheduled, mostly reserve days'
[09:55] <groz> so, gonna get a lot done i think in the next few weeks
[09:58] <malbon> so your AP's are part of this internet on planes thing?
[10:00] <groz> the rb220 ones are
[10:03] <malbon> ah interesting
[10:04] <groz> that hardware is going/gone away now
[10:04] <groz> so, i'm going to have to move that project onto something new soon
[10:07] <db90h> as much time as planes spend on the runway, that's a good idea
[10:07] <db90h> hell, sometimes u get stuck out there for hours
[10:07] <groz> well, that's not quite what it's for
[10:07] <db90h> it's bullshit ;p
[10:07] <groz> what we are doing is this
[10:08] <groz> the router is connected to the flight data recorder
[10:08] <groz> when the plane comes in to a ramp where we have wifi
[10:08] <groz> it connects as a client
[10:08] <malbon> why not use rb112?
[10:08] <groz> then uploads all the trend monitoring data to maintanence
[10:08] <db90h> oh, ic
[10:08] <groz> its an automated process
[10:08] <groz> FlyBE over in the uk has it on all thier planes
[10:09] <groz> and it's on a big chunk of the fedex fleet
[10:09] <groz> so ya, it's all over the place
[10:09] <groz> when we started the project malbon, the 112 wasn't available yet
[10:10] <groz> and since certification is a big deal
[10:10] <groz> we will take our time selecting new hardware, soemthing that's going to be around for a while
[10:10] <groz> in reality, my customer has done a board in house for another project, and, i'm going to try get ti all going on that one first
[10:10] <groz> before we go to another one
[10:10] <db90h> well don't pick a linksys, they change versions every 6 months
[10:11] <groz> that's an interesting one tho, it's a 'soft processor' on a gate array
[10:11] <groz> so i'll be targetting the buildroot-ng onto that nios processor fairly soon now too
[10:12] <groz> just waiting for them to send me hardware, and that'll happen just as soon as somebody declares it 'stable'
[10:14] <malbon> ah fgpa based.
[10:14] <groz> yes
[10:14] <malbon> you could ask them to use Opencores OpenRisc 1000 which is free.
[10:18] <groz> i dont know why they chose the one they chose
[10:18] <groz> nobody asked me for an opinion, they just let me know, the hardware guys chose that one
[10:19] <groz> for whatever reasons
[10:23] <malbon> or for that matter a soft mips core.
[10:24] <groz> the folks that make the gate array sold em on the nios
[10:24] <groz> dunno why
[10:24] <groz> so far, i'm not sure i like that choice
[10:24] <groz> its got no mmu
[10:24] <groz> so it's uClinix
[10:58] <malbon> just what you always wanted. ;)
[10:58] <groz> I love a challenge
[11:04] <CIA-16> nico * r4183 /packages/net/chillispot/Makefile: add copyright statement
[11:15] <CIA-16> nico * r4184 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/package/Makefile: add copyright statement
[11:15] <groz> nico, you here ?
[11:15] <groz> im plucking away at wpa_supp now
[11:15] <groz> but it's a bit of a bear, it needs special handling for all the various hw configurations
[11:16] <groz> got it working on x86 now fussing with brcm
[11:17] <{Nico}> groz: yo
[11:18] <groz> i'm debating getting fancy
[11:18] <groz> and making menuconfig items for including excluding various hw options in wpa_supp
[11:20] <{Nico}> groz: you should first svn cp the package from trunk and adapt it to buildroot-ng as is
[11:20] <groz> that's more or less what i've done
[11:20] <groz> but in this case the trunk one is for brcm only
[11:20] <groz> and i'm building up a setup for the other configurations as well
[11:20] <groz> ie x86
[11:20] <groz> brcm etc
[11:21] <db90h> groz: where have u come from all the sudden? ;p you are a co-founder of openwrt?
[11:22] <{Nico}> groz: it has support for other drivers (hostap, madwifi...)
[11:22] <groz> well, way back when originally
[11:22] <groz> it was mbm and me, and the cvs was here on my puter
[11:22] <groz> lol
[11:22] <groz> and we busted our way into the wrt54g v 1.0
[11:22] <Kaloz> yeah, i remmebered when i met with groz and mbm
[11:22] <Kaloz> :)
[11:22] <groz> yah, i remember that kaloz
[11:23] <groz> was normally only 3 or 4 of us around back then
[11:23] <db90h> i heard mbm has a mustache with curls, is that true?
[11:23] <groz> and ya, i've been out of it for quite a while
[11:23] <groz> but, i've got some time, and some inspiration these days
[11:23] <groz> so i'm working away on stuff now
[11:23] <Kaloz> yeah, iw as the third in the project, and another guy was oin the channel only
[11:23] <groz> parly inspired
[11:23] <groz> by i love the new buildroot-ng
[11:23] <db90h> cool
[11:23] <Kaloz> can't recall his nick, it was y543something or so
[11:24] <Kaloz> and i do remember when groz or mbm made a typo in the mtd mapping
[11:25] <Kaloz> and i was the only one from the three of us who didn't hit enter already when they figured it out
[11:25] <Kaloz> and groz had a wrt without bootloader then :)
[11:25] <groz> umm, ya, that was me
[11:25] <groz> i typod in the flash map
[11:25] <groz> and blew away pmon
[11:25] <Kaloz> haha, now those were the days... :)
[11:25] <groz> i still have to build a jtag
[11:25] <groz> and fix that one
[11:25] <groz> i've got 8 of them now
[11:26] <groz> that i've blown away in one manner or another
[11:26] <Kaloz> and i do remember when the wrt 1.1 was something new :)
[11:26] <Kaloz> groz: did you think about, how long we are doing this project?
[11:26] <groz> one is really cooked, it'll take a tftp, but wont do anything with it, comes back in tftp me mode
[11:26] <groz> i think the flash is wasted
[11:26] <groz> i've only reflashed that one about 1000 times
[11:26] <Kaloz> groz: arounf 2 years and a half
[11:27] <Kaloz> groz: err, i had that with a v2 once
[11:27] <Kaloz> groz: a nvram erase via jtag fixed it
[11:27] <groz> this one is a gs v 1.1
[11:27] <groz> i've got a couple gv3
[11:27] <groz> couple gv1
[11:27] <groz> and a few gs variants
[11:27] <groz> all of which i've killed reflashing at one time or another
[11:28] <groz> so one of these days i'll get a jtag setup, and get em going again
[12:04] <Kaloz> florian__: grrrrrrrrr
[12:08] <Kaloz> florian__: your r4106 broke the toolchain selection... i revert it
[12:50] <groz> kaloz, dumb question if you got a sec
[12:50] <CIA-16> kaloz * r4185 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/toolchain/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix problems with new tar versions, closes #628 and #646
[12:50] <Kaloz> sure
[12:50] <groz> in the big list of targets, do any of those 'just go' on any of the low end dlink aps ?
[12:50] <Kaloz> nope
[12:50] <groz> ie a non broadcom platform ?
[12:50] <groz> ok
[12:51] <groz> just curious
[12:51] <groz> is there anything other than x86 that is even remotely close to 'soup' on anything other than the linksys guys ?
[12:52] <groz> kind of sitting here debating what to tackle next, if the wrt54gr is a viable target
[12:52] <groz> or if i should be looking at something else
[12:55] <Kaloz> dunno, honestly i have to sick more and more about the el'cheapo stuff
[12:56] <groz> sick more and more ??
[12:56] <CIA-16> kaloz * r4186 /branches/whiterussian/openwrt/toolchain/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix #628 and #646 in whiterussian as well
[12:59] <CIA-16> groz * r4187 /packages/net/wpa_supplicant/ (8 files in 3 dirs): port wpa_supplicant to buildroot-ng
[12:59] <Kaloz> s/about/from/
[12:59] <groz> ah
[12:59] <Kaloz> groz: i had enough from the lowend, lowpower, lowquality stuff
[12:59] <Kaloz> :p
[13:01] <CIA-16> kaloz * r4188 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/toolchain/gcc/Config.version: revert [4106] as it breaks toolchain selection
[13:04] <CIA-16> kaloz * r4189 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/toolchain/gcc/ (Config.in Config.version): make gcc 4.1.1 the default for Aruba
[13:10] <CIA-16> kaloz * r4190 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/package/dnsmasq/Makefile: upgrade dnsmasq to v2.32
[14:00] <CIA-16> groz * r4191 /packages/net/ (10 files in 4 dirs): Ported pptpd to buildroot-ng
[14:04] <groz> ok, i'm done for today
[14:45] <CIA-16> florian * r4192 /packages/libs/jpeg/ (. patches/ patches/jpeg-6b-config_guess.patch): Port libjpeg to -ng, fix the jpegint.h copy, closes #562
[14:51] <CIA-16> florian * r4193 /branches/whiterussian/openwrt/package/base-files/default/etc/init.d/S05nvram: Revert [3809], thanks to jr-, closes #536
[14:53] <CIA-16> florian * r4194 /packages/libs/jpeg/Makefile: Add missing makefile *cough*
[14:57] <CIA-16> nbd * r4195 /packages/libs/jpeg/patches/ (100-config_guess.patch jpeg-6b-config_guess.patch): rename the patch file
[15:00] <florian__> nbd: tell me if you want me to rename patchs <pkgname>-<pgversion>- when necessary
[15:13] <nbd> i think we should keep the patches in the <nnn>-name.patch format
[15:14] <florian__> ok, or maybe <nnn>-<pkgname>-<pkgversion>-<description>.patch ?
[15:15] <nbd> i don't think the pkgversion is relevant
[15:16] <nbd> because it always applies to the currently configured one
[15:16] <nbd> and we don't need to keep the pkgname in there
[15:16] <florian__> right
[15:16] <nbd> because we have that information in the directory structure
[15:16] <nbd> so the description is enough
[15:16] <florian__> ok that
[15:17] <florian__> that's ok
[15:17] <florian__> lol, I am speaking like yoda today :)
[15:20] <nbd> no problem as long as i understand what you say :)
[15:20] <Kaloz> florian__: number-foo_bar.patch
[15:20] <Kaloz> :)
[15:21] <nbd> exactly
[16:27] <CIA-16> nbd * r4197 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add submenu dependencies (used to hide the proprietary broadcom driver on anything except for brcm-2.4)
[19:00] <CIA-17> mbm * r4198 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/ (10 files in 8 dirs): fix a few directories missed in [4176]'s source -> download
[21:42] <Raptor4128> Is it true that kamakazi's broadcom wifi driver works now?
[21:43] <Kaloz> what is "kamikazi"?
[21:47] <Raptor4128> meh
[21:48] <Raptor4128> I want to use kamikaze, but I need working wifi
[21:53] <Kaloz> all needed stuff probably goes into 2.6.18 or 2.6.19
[21:57] <Kaloz> probably i add it as a patch for .18
[22:10] <groz> good morning folk, you still around kaloz ?
[22:12] <Kaloz> yep
[22:13] <groz> gonna do some more packages later today
[22:13] <groz> anything 'pressing' you want right away ?
[22:17] <Kaloz> openvpn, wifidog, bwm, picocom, samba in this priority imho
[22:18] <groz> probably gonna take a good look at the berlios brcm driver too, got a couple notebooks with that card, never looked at it yet
[22:19] <groz> just prepping to upgrade one to newest kernels with that stuff in it
[22:20] <Kaloz> well, it's already in the kernel now
[22:20] <Kaloz> for the extra stuff and master mode
[22:20] <groz> ya, but, you still have to fuss with fwcutter etc
[22:20] <Kaloz> you have to go with wireless-dev instead of mainline
[22:20] <groz> so i'm just getting kernels updated on a notebook
[22:20] <groz> so i can start fussing wiht it
[22:21] <groz> for now, i'll be happy with it running as a client, intent being it can be a client of wrt based ap, and run test suite scripts
[22:21] <groz> which I am also working on
[22:22] <groz> stupid little things, like a client that changes mac address, dhcp, repeat, until the dhcp server runs outa leases
[22:22] <groz> count how many it actually gave
[22:22] <groz> then check later, that they actually do get re-cycled
[22:22] <groz> when leases start expiring
[23:01] <CIA-17> groz * r4199 /packages/net/oidentd/ (. Makefile files/ files/S85oidentd patches/): Added oidentd to buildroot-ng packages
[23:24] <common> my mini-pci slots arrived
[23:24] <common> guess i'll wreck my wrv54g monday trying to solder a 2nd minipci slot on it
[23:24] <common> 140 contacts
[00:00] --- Sat Jul 22 2006
[00:01] <Kaloz> groz: http://www.topcom.net/product.php?groep=2&cat=18&catsub=81
[00:01] <Kaloz> the one on the top
[00:02] <groz> and that's the rdc stuff inside ?
[00:02] <Kaloz> yeah
[00:02] <groz> you say the linksys has tftpd
[00:02] <groz> so it's possible to tftp it during boot ?
[00:02] <Kaloz> yep
[00:02] <Kaloz> look at the redboot binaries in the gpl tarball
[00:03] <Kaloz> the linksys one has tftpd
[00:03] <groz> i haven't looked closely yet, just confirmed it's an x86 device, then, put it on my list of 'get one when i see it at the store'
[00:03] <groz> but the store that has them in inventory is an hour drive
[00:03] <groz> i haven't gone there yet
[00:04] <groz> so, you say there is no flash mapping at all on it
[00:06] <Kaloz> right
[00:16] <[mbm]> btw we seem to be missing an target/linux/image/ar531x directory
[00:17] <[mbm]> er .. -linux
[00:17] <[mbm]> target/image/ar531x
[00:40] <groz> ok, now i have a dumb question
[00:40] <groz> i checked out the packages tree
[00:40] <groz> but, i dont see an obvious way to join it into the setup
[00:41] <[mbm]> :)
[00:41] <groz> to get the packages building
[00:41] <[mbm]> just dump one of them in buildroot-ng/openwrt/packages and run make menuconfig to select it
[00:41] <groz> ok, so you dump the whole directory in there
[00:41] <groz> you cant just join the new tree in
[00:41] <groz> and magically find them all
[00:42] <[mbm]> as soon as you add a new package directory it magically shows up in menuconfig
[00:42] <groz> i was wondering if there is a bit of 'magic' to keep them separated is all
[00:42] <groz> yah, i've seen how that works
[00:42] <groz> i was just wondfering since they are in different trees in svn
[00:42] <groz> if they should be kept that way
[00:42] <groz> for putting them back in
[00:43] <[mbm]> the way it's setup is that only required packages are actually under buildroot-ng
[00:43] <groz> yes, and i'm gonna start on some 'not required' ones now
[00:44] <[mbm]> meaning that you check them into packages/ and not buildroot-ng/
[00:44] <groz> and i'm thinking there is something i'm missing about how to keep it separated
[00:44] <groz> ok, i can do that
[00:44] <groz> but to build em, just mix em all in
[00:44] <[mbm]> yep
[00:44] <groz> ok, thought maybe i was missing another magic step here
[00:44] <groz> guess after seeing so much magic, it ran outa magic
[00:46] <[mbm]> really isn't much point to separating them on the build machine
[00:46] <groz> yah, just dont want to end up checking them back into the wrong tree
[00:46] <groz> but i have a solution
[00:46] <[mbm]> symlinks?
[00:46] <groz> yep
[00:47] <groz> so i can keep the trees separate while i bring a few across
[00:47] <groz> but build em mixed
[00:47] <groz> gonna get wpa_supp going now
[00:47] <[mbm]> hmm something screwy about the kernel builds .. occasinally it'll just crash complaining it can't find the *.ko files to make the kmod-crypto package
[00:47] <groz> this of course assumes i dont get called to go flying
[00:48] <groz> i'm first up on call now
[00:49] <groz> i'm still debating if getting back into flying was a 'smart move'
[00:50] <[mbm]> you'd rather a desk job?
[00:50] <groz> flying is a desk job
[00:50] <groz> just the desk is moving
[00:50] <[mbm]> shows my ignorance, I always thought they flew planes
[00:51] <groz> i do fly planes
[00:51] <groz> but, sitting in the front of the plane for a few hours
[00:51] <groz> not much different than sitting at a desk
[00:52] <groz> well, actually, it is a bit, things like there is a 'procedure' to follow if you want to get up and take a piss
[00:52] <groz> partner has to put on o2 mask before you get out of seat
[00:52] <groz> etc
[00:52] <[mbm]> hit autopilot, take a piss ..
[00:53] <groz> if one pilot is gonna leave the cockpit, other pilot must be wearing oxygen mask
[00:53] <groz> autopilot always does the real flying
[00:53] <groz> new rules, not allowed to hand fly airplanes anymore
[00:53] <groz> above 28,000 feet
[00:53] <h3sp4wn> Even military planes are not manually flown
[00:53] <h3sp4wn> ?
[00:53] <groz> google RVSM
[00:54] <groz> reduced vertical separation minimums
[00:54] <groz> military same deal, unless they have a clearance for a 'block of altitudes'
[00:54] <groz> or are operating in a restricted area
[00:54] <[mbm]> well, wearing an o2 mask while someone is stinking up the place is just common sense ..
[00:54] <[mbm]> ;)
[00:54] <groz> but when tehy are doing the boring point a to point b stuff, same rules apply
[00:55] <groz> lol mbm, actually, the pisser is in another room
[00:55] <h3sp4wn> But in iraq say ? it is not manually flown ? dropping bombs ?
[00:55] <groz> no worries about that
[00:55] <groz> iraq doesnt have the same airspace rules north america and europe have
[00:55] <h3sp4wn> So they fly normally there ?
[00:55] <groz> but no, dropping bombs is not gonna be hand flown at all
[00:55] <groz> not precise enough
[00:55] <groz> it'll all be done by computer
[00:56] <h3sp4wn> But the actual flying ?
[00:56] <groz> yah, the actual flying
[00:56] <groz> heck, when i go out
[00:56] <groz> lots of times, we dont touch controls after we get onto the runway
[00:56] <groz> set auto, and off you go
[00:56] <[mbm]> so basically you're just there to reboot the computer if it goes bsod?
[00:56] <groz> it's more fuel efficient that way
[00:56] <groz> you are there to pacify passengers
[00:56] <groz> they feel better if they see warm bodies up front
[00:57] <groz> the funny part is, when weather gets really bad
[00:57] <groz> we are not permitted to hand fly, even landing
[00:57] <[mbm]> reminds me of the old joke about the blind pilots
[00:57] <groz> it's a job i do mostly for the travel perks
[00:58] <groz> but it really depends on the equipment too
[00:58] <groz> take the CRJ as an example, it's autopilot is not capable of auto-land
[00:58] <groz> so, those things are always hand flown from 1000 feet to the ground
[00:59] <groz> but take a modern 737 as an example, 737-800
[00:59] <groz> most operators have standard procedures that specifiy
[00:59] <groz> thou shalt let auto fly, it saves gas
[00:59] <db90h> very educational ;)
[01:00] <db90h> now we know why its ok for pilots to drink and get stoned
[01:00] <groz> i've got buddies flying for westjet
[01:00] <db90h> ;)
[01:00] <groz> brand new airplanes
[01:00] <groz> they complain, not really allowed to fly anymore
[01:00] <groz> got more buddies flying older equipment, turn down upgrades onto new stuff
[01:00] <db90h> hehe, yea that would be a boring job
[01:00] <groz> cuz they want to have something to do
[01:00] <[mbm]> db90h: now I know where the stewardist is when she isn't serving me those damned peanuts for $3
[01:01] <groz> they see no appeal in shepherding an autopilot aournd the country
[01:01] <groz> mbm, consider this
[01:01] <db90h> off partying with the pilots?
[01:01] <groz> next time you are on a commercial flight
[01:01] <groz> just before takeoff, listen carefully
[01:01] <groz> you will hear the chimes
[01:01] <groz> loudly going BIMBO
[01:01] <groz> then later, when the pilots want coffee up front
[01:01] <groz> push the bimbo button
[01:01] <groz> chimes go BIMBO
[01:01] <groz> and one comes running
[01:02] <db90h> lol
[01:02] <[mbm]> hot coffee
[01:02] <db90h> u mean that sound when they turn on no smoking sign and seatbelt sign?
[01:02] <db90h> it kinda does sound like 'bimbo' ;p
[01:02] <groz> yes
[01:02] <groz> the bimbo bell
[01:02] <db90h> never thought of that
[01:02] <db90h> that's hilarious
[01:04] <groz> I did an annual renewal flight test a couple weeks ago, on a small plane
[01:04] <groz> i actually got marked down
[01:04] <groz> for not using the autopilot as much as i could
[01:05] <[mbm]> what I always found funny is that there's never a problem with the aircraft, they just need to change a tire
[01:07] <groz> hmm, can i sell you a bridge too ?
[01:07] <[mbm]> yeah, I know
[01:11] <andersee> groz: bridges are free -- 'addbr br0'
[01:11] <andersee> :)
[01:11] Action: andersee goes back into lurk mode
[01:12] <groz> lol
[01:15] Action: [mbm] can't stand flying much anymore .. in the economy class there's not even enough room to open a laptop
[01:15] <groz> well, you know what, there's not any more room up front either
[01:15] <groz> except, i do get legroom in front of me
[01:15] <Kaloz> just free alcohol
[01:16] <Kaloz> :p
[01:16] <groz> down to the rudder pedals
[01:16] <[mbm]> in the unlikely event that the person infront of me hasn't fully reclined their seat into obscene positions I barely have enough room to sit the laptop on my lap
[01:16] <groz> it actually depends on the airline
[01:17] <[mbm]> usually just fully packed dc-9's
[01:19] <[mbm]> last flight I took was with northwest .. two 3 hours spans, no movies and only a single soda .. had to spend $5 if I wanted their snack assortment
[01:19] <[mbm]> would have watched a movie on my laptop if only I could get the screen into a viewable position
[01:20] <andersee> you need a smaller laptop
[01:20] <groz> you know what's really disgusting
[01:20] <groz> take westjet as an example
[01:20] <groz> if the pilots want something from the commisary
[01:20] <groz> they pay for it, just like the passengers
[01:20] <[mbm]> andersee: this is a standard size thinkpad .. it's not one of those massive things
[01:20] <h3sp4wn> You need to just act in a agressive / violent way (get people to be more reasonable
[01:21] <[mbm]> think my next laptop I'll get one where the screen folds into a tablet form
[01:21] <Kaloz> [mbm]: get a subnote
[01:21] <Kaloz> ;)
[01:21] <groz> hmmm, i've recently had 'special training' in dealing with aggressive/violent passengers
[01:21] <Kaloz> i could watch movies on my hp on the plane
[01:21] <[mbm]> groz: get them drugged?
[01:21] <groz> about the only good thing to come out of all this new security crap
[01:22] <groz> now, they tell us, basically
[01:22] <groz> if you kill em, nobody will mind
[01:22] <Kaloz> lol
[01:22] <Kaloz> i thought this mentality didn't get out of the usa
[01:22] <groz> oh, i fly inot the usa a lot
[01:22] <groz> so thier attitude sneaks in
[01:23] <[mbm]> Kaloz: this flight was pathetic, the seats were packed so close I had to bend my knees up just to get into the seat
[01:23] <groz> mbm, how tall are you ?
[01:23] <[mbm]> not very
[01:23] <[mbm]> probably 5'4" or so
[01:23] <groz> you want a disgusting trip
[01:23] <groz> i'm 6'1
[01:23] <groz> ride a CRJ from vegas to vancouver
[01:23] <Kaloz> eh
[01:24] <Kaloz> now i have to calc it to some normal number
[01:24] <Kaloz> :p
[01:24] <db90h> it seems like the software backing auto-pilot functionality would be exceedingly complex
[01:24] <groz> kaloz, is simple
[01:24] <db90h> to land a 747.. there's a lot of variables there
[01:24] <groz> 5'4 is 'slightly below averag' and 6'1 is slightly above average
[01:24] <groz> actyally db90
[01:24] <groz> its a lot simpler than you would imagine
[01:24] <Kaloz> groz: ~183cm for you, right?
[01:24] <groz> simple state machines
[01:25] <groz> that eliminate all unnecessary variables
[01:25] <db90h> they just respond to changes in the state of the aircraft?
[01:25] <groz> yup
[01:25] <groz> and it goes thru a very rigourous proving process
[01:25] <groz> so, the name of the game is always 'simplify'
[01:25] <db90h> i bet.. i'm sure they run it through a lot of simulations
[01:25] <[mbm]> Kaloz: google. 'convert __ feet __ inches to cm'
[01:26] <db90h> yea, simplicity is the key to a well designed and reliable system
[01:26] <groz> it dopes db, but, after the audits and 'proofs'
[01:26] <Kaloz> then i was about right
[01:26] <groz> and you sit back for every bit of info
[01:26] <db90h> ah, yea, proofs.. yuck
[01:26] <groz> and go thru a system safety assessment
[01:26] <groz> 'is this really necessary'
[01:26] <Kaloz> i'm 6' then
[01:27] <[mbm]> I have no idea what my actual height is .. I'm too lazy to measure
[01:28] <Kaloz> i i only know because we did bet on something with a girl not that long ago :)
[01:29] <[mbm]> o_O
[01:30] <Kaloz> yeah, life is weird :P
[01:38] <[mbm]> nbd: poke?
[01:39] <groz> nico you still here ?
[01:45] <h3sp4wn> Is the --wildcards issue for new versions of tar going to be fixed for rc6 ? (its only a minor problem but annoying)
[01:45] <[mbm]> yeah
[01:45] <h3sp4wn> Cool
[01:45] <[mbm]> it's one of the many todo items
[01:45] <h3sp4wn> No probs
[01:45] <[mbm]> sadly I question if rc6 will be out in the next 3 weeks
[01:46] <h3sp4wn> seriously ?
[01:46] <[mbm]> at this rate it won't be
[01:46] <h3sp4wn> ok
[01:47] <groz> ok, now do i change the 'todo' page on the dev wiki ?
[01:47] <groz> i must be blind, i dont see anything for that
[01:47] <[mbm]> the edit button on the bottom of the page?
[01:48] <groz> the edit button that's not there you mean ?
[01:48] <[mbm]> did you log in?
[01:48] <groz> yes
[01:48] <groz> logged in as groz
[01:48] <groz> it says at the top
[01:48] Action: [mbm] goes to check user permiessions
[01:48] Action: groz can understand not giviing groz write permission, i wouldn't either
[01:49] <Kaloz> fixed
[01:49] <Kaloz> :p
[01:49] <groz> oh look, new buttons
[01:49] <groz> including a 'delete' button
[01:49] <Kaloz> doh
[01:49] <Kaloz> :p
[01:50] <[mbm]> heh, was going to say, I just looked and groz had full admin rights
[01:51] <CIA-16> mbm * r4179 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/include/prereq.mk: update prereqs
[01:52] <CIA-16> mbm * r4180 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/include/kernel-build.mk: change $(STAMP_DIR) to $(LINUX_DIR) to avoid issues compiling multiple kernels
[01:57] <[mbm]> groz: https://dev.openwrt.org/wiki/people
[01:58] <groz> I can remain incognito for a while no ?
[01:58] <[mbm]> no
[01:59] <Kaloz> :P
[02:03] <groz> there, happy now ?
[02:03] <groz> ooops, need to change one more thing
[02:03] Action: groz NOT in usa
[02:04] <[mbm]> exactly how drunk are you? :)
[02:04] <groz> ?
[02:04] <[mbm]> just seems like you'd remember where you lived
[02:04] <groz> missed a piece cut and paste
[02:04] <Kaloz> malbon: you are missing from there as well :P
[02:04] <[mbm]> at least enough to narrow it down to a country
[02:08] <CIA-16> mbm * r4181 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/include/modules-2.6.mk: fix a few broken depenancies
[02:10] <[mbm]> there, now I can actually compile almost all platforms
[02:10] <groz> kewl
[02:11] <[mbm]> btw whoever maintains the bcm63xx stuff might want to revisit the kernel config .. imq and net sched are normally enabled
[05:38] <groz> so, is anybody still around, want more opions
[05:38] <groz> i want to create one more image target, if for no other reason, that I need it
[05:38] <groz> basically create a file system that can be written onto a usb key with dd
[05:38] <groz> and then boot an itx box as a router
[05:39] <groz> curious if anybody has any thoughts on the right/wrong way to do that
[05:39] <groz> i've done it in the past by loop mounting an ext file, so that i can lilo it
[05:39] <groz> then just copy on a kernel and initrd, then lilo it
[05:40] <groz> wondering if anybody has any other thoughts/preferences on making an fs bootable on a pc
[07:37] <malbon> groz: I used the skoaris port on disk on chip, grub (is better than lilo for some things)
[07:37] <malbon> groz: disk format I used was ext3
[08:49] <groz> i'm back
[08:49] <groz> thanks malbon, that's more or less that i was looking at too, gonna start here shortly
[08:49] <groz> i did ext2 last time i did this but thought ext3 better this time
[08:50] <groz> the real issue, is deciding which boot loader to use
[09:03] <florian__> hello, I think grub is good in any case, at least for x86
[09:06] Action: Kaloz would go with u-boot/syslinux
[09:06] <groz> really kaloz ?
[09:06] <groz> i've never looked at uboot
[09:06] <groz> and i dunno, syslinux, does'nt that require fat or cdfs ?
[09:07] <groz> all i want to be able to do, is load the kernel from the usb stick
[09:07] <groz> and then turn around and mount that stick once it's up
[09:08] <groz> but i'm interested in hearing pros and cons of various routes
[09:08] <Kaloz> both should work with ext2/ext3 just fine
[09:08] <groz> and, what do you guys think
[09:08] <groz> does this belong in the image set for mass consumptiom then
[09:08] <Kaloz> and both of them is way smaller then grub/lilo
[09:08] <groz> allows folks to build a bootable image, dd it onto a stick, and voila, instant router
[09:09] <groz> anything that can boot a stick
[09:09] <groz> I'll take a look at syslinux, last time i used it, it was only for fat systems
[09:09] <groz> but it's way easier to do a scripted install for
[09:09] <groz> than lilo
[09:09] <groz> with lilo, you have to loop mount the image, and, need to get root to set up the block loop device
[09:10] <Kaloz> Changes in 3.07:
[09:10] <Kaloz> Use a private copy of <linux/ext2_fs.h>.
[09:10] <Kaloz> :p
[09:10] <Kaloz> and it was long time ago
[09:10] <groz> well, i haven't looked at syslinux for proably 2 or 3 years
[09:10] <groz> or more
[09:10] <Kaloz> oh
[09:10] <Kaloz> groz: http://syslinux.zytor.com/extlinux.php
[09:11] <Kaloz> okay, it's derivative then
[09:11] <groz> ok, there it is
[09:11] <groz> extlinux
[09:11] <groz> lol
[09:13] <Kaloz> so i would try that or u-boot
[09:13] <groz> grrr, that seems to require a partitioned device
[09:13] <groz> it wants a master boot record with a partition table apparently
[09:13] <groz> that's the beauty of a memory stick, it doesnt have to be partitioned
[09:14] <groz> it's just a big floppy
[09:16] <groz> oh, maybe not, i'm mis reading
[09:16] <groz> it's saying it wont create it
[09:16] <groz> but, on a 'big floppy' we dont want it
[09:27] <CIA-16> florian * r4182 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/target/linux/brcm63xx-2.6/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Update brcm63xx to 2.6.17, restore the use of "generic patches" since there is no linux version mismatch
[09:43] <malbon> of course if you want to do embedded booting use redboot ;)
[09:44] <groz> lol malbon
[09:44] <groz> but i just am making a simple setup to copy onto a memory stick, and boot a via board with
[09:45] <groz> i've done it before where i copy a small (5 meg) ext2 system onto the stick with dd
[09:45] <groz> then when it boots, before it mounts that
[09:45] <groz> it runs resize2fs
[09:45] <groz> to size it up and fill the stick, whatever size stick it is
[09:47] <groz> malbon, i take it your are the redboot expert ?
[09:47] <groz> and no, not gonna bombard you with q's on it right now
[09:48] <malbon> well a lot of new platforms work with redboot now so it would be consistent with those other boards.
[09:48] <malbon> sorry I am a bit lagged. :(
[09:48] <groz> in the near future, i'm gonna start playing with the wrt54gr
[09:48] <malbon> expert is a bit strong.
[09:48] <groz> and i think that's redboot
[09:49] <groz> but before i get to that, got a bunch of things to clean up and get functional on wrt54g and x86 target systems
[09:49] <malbon> yeah, I was looking how to get one of those, they don't seem to be available in UK yet.
[09:49] <groz> well, theres a store in vancouver that is about an hour drive from here
[09:49] <groz> thier online system shows they have one in the store
[09:49] <groz> otherwise, they are still an 'order' item locally
[09:49] <groz> but I think it's a very intriguing box
[09:49] <malbon> rather than have the binary of resize2fs why not go JFS and in the scripts just do a mount / -o remount,resize
[09:50] <groz> cuz at the time, i was in a hurry, and i knew how to get it done with resize
[09:50] <malbon> yeah same here, only one vendor has them that I have tried
[09:50] <groz> and have never used jfs before
[09:50] <groz> so it was a 'start from scratch' concept to go that way
[09:50] <groz> and i was in a hurry to get it up and going
[09:51] <malbon> I use it in all my prod boxes, it is reliable.
[09:51] <groz> really
[09:51] <groz> what kind of hardware is your prod boxes, and how many of them you got out there ?
[09:51] <malbon> ( but working with IBM at $day_job has probably brainwashed me )
[09:52] <groz> lol
[09:52] <malbon> IBM x345/x346/x445/x446 IBM pSeries
[09:52] <groz> I've got one project useing the routerboard 220, got about 300 out there
[09:52] <groz> another project using wrt54g/gs/gl
[09:52] <groz> got about 1800 of those out there
[09:52] <malbon> aha, different sort of enviroment. ;)
[09:53] <malbon> groz: you spoken to murb recently btw?
[09:53] <groz> my rb220 stuff is 'very remote'
[09:53] <groz> they come live on the net about once every few days
[09:53] <groz> no, i haven't talked to him for a few weeks
[09:53] <groz> but he sure did get the job done when we needed it
[09:53] <groz> really saved my bacon on that one
[09:53] <malbon> ah, disconnected units.
[09:53] <malbon> yeah, he does seem to fall off the edge of the planet.
[09:53] <groz> they are mounted in airplanes, and only 'come to life' when they come to a ramp where we have access points
[09:54] <groz> well, i haven't been trying to get hold of him either
[09:54] <groz> so i dunno
[09:54] <groz> altho i believe he's been working with our european rep off and on since then
[09:54] <malbon> fair enough.
[09:54] <groz> I've been buried on another project since then, and, off flying a lot
[09:55] <groz> but i'm into a fairly long stretch of 'no significant flying scheduled, mostly reserve days'
[09:55] <groz> so, gonna get a lot done i think in the next few weeks
[09:58] <malbon> so your AP's are part of this internet on planes thing?
[10:00] <groz> the rb220 ones are
[10:03] <malbon> ah interesting
[10:04] <groz> that hardware is going/gone away now
[10:04] <groz> so, i'm going to have to move that project onto something new soon
[10:07] <db90h> as much time as planes spend on the runway, that's a good idea
[10:07] <db90h> hell, sometimes u get stuck out there for hours
[10:07] <groz> well, that's not quite what it's for
[10:07] <db90h> it's bullshit ;p
[10:07] <groz> what we are doing is this
[10:08] <groz> the router is connected to the flight data recorder
[10:08] <groz> when the plane comes in to a ramp where we have wifi
[10:08] <groz> it connects as a client
[10:08] <malbon> why not use rb112?
[10:08] <groz> then uploads all the trend monitoring data to maintanence
[10:08] <db90h> oh, ic
[10:08] <groz> its an automated process
[10:08] <groz> FlyBE over in the uk has it on all thier planes
[10:09] <groz> and it's on a big chunk of the fedex fleet
[10:09] <groz> so ya, it's all over the place
[10:09] <groz> when we started the project malbon, the 112 wasn't available yet
[10:10] <groz> and since certification is a big deal
[10:10] <groz> we will take our time selecting new hardware, soemthing that's going to be around for a while
[10:10] <groz> in reality, my customer has done a board in house for another project, and, i'm going to try get ti all going on that one first
[10:10] <groz> before we go to another one
[10:10] <db90h> well don't pick a linksys, they change versions every 6 months
[10:11] <groz> that's an interesting one tho, it's a 'soft processor' on a gate array
[10:11] <groz> so i'll be targetting the buildroot-ng onto that nios processor fairly soon now too
[10:12] <groz> just waiting for them to send me hardware, and that'll happen just as soon as somebody declares it 'stable'
[10:14] <malbon> ah fgpa based.
[10:14] <groz> yes
[10:14] <malbon> you could ask them to use Opencores OpenRisc 1000 which is free.
[10:18] <groz> i dont know why they chose the one they chose
[10:18] <groz> nobody asked me for an opinion, they just let me know, the hardware guys chose that one
[10:19] <groz> for whatever reasons
[10:23] <malbon> or for that matter a soft mips core.
[10:24] <groz> the folks that make the gate array sold em on the nios
[10:24] <groz> dunno why
[10:24] <groz> so far, i'm not sure i like that choice
[10:24] <groz> its got no mmu
[10:24] <groz> so it's uClinix
[10:58] <malbon> just what you always wanted. ;)
[10:58] <groz> I love a challenge
[11:04] <CIA-16> nico * r4183 /packages/net/chillispot/Makefile: add copyright statement
[11:15] <CIA-16> nico * r4184 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/package/Makefile: add copyright statement
[11:15] <groz> nico, you here ?
[11:15] <groz> im plucking away at wpa_supp now
[11:15] <groz> but it's a bit of a bear, it needs special handling for all the various hw configurations
[11:16] <groz> got it working on x86 now fussing with brcm
[11:17] <{Nico}> groz: yo
[11:18] <groz> i'm debating getting fancy
[11:18] <groz> and making menuconfig items for including excluding various hw options in wpa_supp
[11:20] <{Nico}> groz: you should first svn cp the package from trunk and adapt it to buildroot-ng as is
[11:20] <groz> that's more or less what i've done
[11:20] <groz> but in this case the trunk one is for brcm only
[11:20] <groz> and i'm building up a setup for the other configurations as well
[11:20] <groz> ie x86
[11:20] <groz> brcm etc
[11:21] <db90h> groz: where have u come from all the sudden? ;p you are a co-founder of openwrt?
[11:22] <{Nico}> groz: it has support for other drivers (hostap, madwifi...)
[11:22] <groz> well, way back when originally
[11:22] <groz> it was mbm and me, and the cvs was here on my puter
[11:22] <groz> lol
[11:22] <groz> and we busted our way into the wrt54g v 1.0
[11:22] <Kaloz> yeah, i remmebered when i met with groz and mbm
[11:22] <Kaloz> :)
[11:22] <groz> yah, i remember that kaloz
[11:23] <groz> was normally only 3 or 4 of us around back then
[11:23] <db90h> i heard mbm has a mustache with curls, is that true?
[11:23] <groz> and ya, i've been out of it for quite a while
[11:23] <groz> but, i've got some time, and some inspiration these days
[11:23] <groz> so i'm working away on stuff now
[11:23] <Kaloz> yeah, iw as the third in the project, and another guy was oin the channel only
[11:23] <groz> parly inspired
[11:23] <groz> by i love the new buildroot-ng
[11:23] <db90h> cool
[11:23] <Kaloz> can't recall his nick, it was y543something or so
[11:24] <Kaloz> and i do remember when groz or mbm made a typo in the mtd mapping
[11:25] <Kaloz> and i was the only one from the three of us who didn't hit enter already when they figured it out
[11:25] <Kaloz> and groz had a wrt without bootloader then :)
[11:25] <groz> umm, ya, that was me
[11:25] <groz> i typod in the flash map
[11:25] <groz> and blew away pmon
[11:25] <Kaloz> haha, now those were the days... :)
[11:25] <groz> i still have to build a jtag
[11:25] <groz> and fix that one
[11:25] <groz> i've got 8 of them now
[11:26] <groz> that i've blown away in one manner or another
[11:26] <Kaloz> and i do remember when the wrt 1.1 was something new :)
[11:26] <Kaloz> groz: did you think about, how long we are doing this project?
[11:26] <groz> one is really cooked, it'll take a tftp, but wont do anything with it, comes back in tftp me mode
[11:26] <groz> i think the flash is wasted
[11:26] <groz> i've only reflashed that one about 1000 times
[11:26] <Kaloz> groz: arounf 2 years and a half
[11:27] <Kaloz> groz: err, i had that with a v2 once
[11:27] <Kaloz> groz: a nvram erase via jtag fixed it
[11:27] <groz> this one is a gs v 1.1
[11:27] <groz> i've got a couple gv3
[11:27] <groz> couple gv1
[11:27] <groz> and a few gs variants
[11:27] <groz> all of which i've killed reflashing at one time or another
[11:28] <groz> so one of these days i'll get a jtag setup, and get em going again
[12:04] <Kaloz> florian__: grrrrrrrrr
[12:08] <Kaloz> florian__: your r4106 broke the toolchain selection... i revert it
[12:50] <groz> kaloz, dumb question if you got a sec
[12:50] <CIA-16> kaloz * r4185 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/toolchain/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix problems with new tar versions, closes #628 and #646
[12:50] <Kaloz> sure
[12:50] <groz> in the big list of targets, do any of those 'just go' on any of the low end dlink aps ?
[12:50] <Kaloz> nope
[12:50] <groz> ie a non broadcom platform ?
[12:50] <groz> ok
[12:51] <groz> just curious
[12:51] <groz> is there anything other than x86 that is even remotely close to 'soup' on anything other than the linksys guys ?
[12:52] <groz> kind of sitting here debating what to tackle next, if the wrt54gr is a viable target
[12:52] <groz> or if i should be looking at something else
[12:55] <Kaloz> dunno, honestly i have to sick more and more about the el'cheapo stuff
[12:56] <groz> sick more and more ??
[12:56] <CIA-16> kaloz * r4186 /branches/whiterussian/openwrt/toolchain/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix #628 and #646 in whiterussian as well
[12:59] <CIA-16> groz * r4187 /packages/net/wpa_supplicant/ (8 files in 3 dirs): port wpa_supplicant to buildroot-ng
[12:59] <Kaloz> s/about/from/
[12:59] <groz> ah
[12:59] <Kaloz> groz: i had enough from the lowend, lowpower, lowquality stuff
[12:59] <Kaloz> :p
[13:01] <CIA-16> kaloz * r4188 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/toolchain/gcc/Config.version: revert [4106] as it breaks toolchain selection
[13:04] <CIA-16> kaloz * r4189 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/toolchain/gcc/ (Config.in Config.version): make gcc 4.1.1 the default for Aruba
[13:10] <CIA-16> kaloz * r4190 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/package/dnsmasq/Makefile: upgrade dnsmasq to v2.32
[14:00] <CIA-16> groz * r4191 /packages/net/ (10 files in 4 dirs): Ported pptpd to buildroot-ng
[14:04] <groz> ok, i'm done for today
[14:45] <CIA-16> florian * r4192 /packages/libs/jpeg/ (. patches/ patches/jpeg-6b-config_guess.patch): Port libjpeg to -ng, fix the jpegint.h copy, closes #562
[14:51] <CIA-16> florian * r4193 /branches/whiterussian/openwrt/package/base-files/default/etc/init.d/S05nvram: Revert [3809], thanks to jr-, closes #536
[14:53] <CIA-16> florian * r4194 /packages/libs/jpeg/Makefile: Add missing makefile *cough*
[14:57] <CIA-16> nbd * r4195 /packages/libs/jpeg/patches/ (100-config_guess.patch jpeg-6b-config_guess.patch): rename the patch file
[15:00] <florian__> nbd: tell me if you want me to rename patchs <pkgname>-<pgversion>- when necessary
[15:13] <nbd> i think we should keep the patches in the <nnn>-name.patch format
[15:14] <florian__> ok, or maybe <nnn>-<pkgname>-<pkgversion>-<description>.patch ?
[15:15] <nbd> i don't think the pkgversion is relevant
[15:16] <nbd> because it always applies to the currently configured one
[15:16] <nbd> and we don't need to keep the pkgname in there
[15:16] <florian__> right
[15:16] <nbd> because we have that information in the directory structure
[15:16] <nbd> so the description is enough
[15:16] <florian__> ok that
[15:17] <florian__> that's ok
[15:17] <florian__> lol, I am speaking like yoda today :)
[15:20] <nbd> no problem as long as i understand what you say :)
[15:20] <Kaloz> florian__: number-foo_bar.patch
[15:20] <Kaloz> :)
[15:21] <nbd> exactly
[16:27] <CIA-16> nbd * r4197 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add submenu dependencies (used to hide the proprietary broadcom driver on anything except for brcm-2.4)
[19:00] <CIA-17> mbm * r4198 /branches/buildroot-ng/openwrt/ (10 files in 8 dirs): fix a few directories missed in [4176]'s source -> download
[21:42] <Raptor4128> Is it true that kamakazi's broadcom wifi driver works now?
[21:43] <Kaloz> what is "kamikazi"?
[21:47] <Raptor4128> meh
[21:48] <Raptor4128> I want to use kamikaze, but I need working wifi
[21:53] <Kaloz> all needed stuff probably goes into 2.6.18 or 2.6.19
[21:57] <Kaloz> probably i add it as a patch for .18
[22:10] <groz> good morning folk, you still around kaloz ?
[22:12] <Kaloz> yep
[22:13] <groz> gonna do some more packages later today
[22:13] <groz> anything 'pressing' you want right away ?
[22:17] <Kaloz> openvpn, wifidog, bwm, picocom, samba in this priority imho
[22:18] <groz> probably gonna take a good look at the berlios brcm driver too, got a couple notebooks with that card, never looked at it yet
[22:19] <groz> just prepping to upgrade one to newest kernels with that stuff in it
[22:20] <Kaloz> well, it's already in the kernel now
[22:20] <Kaloz> for the extra stuff and master mode
[22:20] <groz> ya, but, you still have to fuss with fwcutter etc
[22:20] <Kaloz> you have to go with wireless-dev instead of mainline
[22:20] <groz> so i'm just getting kernels updated on a notebook
[22:20] <groz> so i can start fussing wiht it
[22:21] <groz> for now, i'll be happy with it running as a client, intent being it can be a client of wrt based ap, and run test suite scripts
[22:21] <groz> which I am also working on
[22:22] <groz> stupid little things, like a client that changes mac address, dhcp, repeat, until the dhcp server runs outa leases
[22:22] <groz> count how many it actually gave
[22:22] <groz> then check later, that they actually do get re-cycled
[22:22] <groz> when leases start expiring
[23:01] <CIA-17> groz * r4199 /packages/net/oidentd/ (. Makefile files/ files/S85oidentd patches/): Added oidentd to buildroot-ng packages
[23:24] <common> my mini-pci slots arrived
[23:24] <common> guess i'll wreck my wrv54g monday trying to solder a 2nd minipci slot on it
[23:24] <common> 140 contacts
[00:00] --- Sat Jul 22 2006